Curse

NerfHerder · Dec 29, 2010, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Warriors Endurance should get you through regardless of your weapon choice. Depending on your hero and hench set up. Spamming Attack Skills is the bread and butter of any melee.

Hundred Blades is good but really needs good aggro management to be effective. And MoP+Whirlwind Attack to pwn.

I'm not a fan of Dragon Slash, but if your looking for single target damage, look no further.

Once you get out of prophecies dont forget to pick up skills like Asuran Scan, Whirlwind Attack, and Save Yourselves.

And dont bring caster skills into pugs, it makes you look silly. It sucks your energy dry and makes you useless at your actual job. I /facepalm everytime I see a Warrior casting EVAS and PI. The only very rare exception is Pain Inverter when your H+Hing in HM for a few bosses. With other real players let the casters bring those skills.

Good Luck and Happy Hunting! Tell Lich I said "Hi!"

EDIT: if your looking to use Hammers, and/or more utility I suggestDwarven Battle Stance. Add Brawling Head Butt, Renewing Smash, and Save Yourselves, for massive AoE interrupts, superior single target damage, and party wide defense.

A11Eur0 · Dec 29, 2010, 03:45 AM // 03:45

For a beginner in warrior-dom...I'd say go with Hundred Blades, so you can get the hang of gathering aggro with +16 armor to help you out. Once you get the hang of that, the yellow numbers of a WE scyther and the constant SY! upkeep can be a strong draw. I on the other hand have gone almost entirely Hammer...either earthshaker or backbreaker depending on the area. I like it better than a scythe. Nothing more fun than knocklocking whole mobs in urgoz with crude/whirlwind/earthshaker, or tearing a caster boss up with backbreaker/renewing.

reaper with no name · Dec 29, 2010, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaeZ246

Lifeinfusion, tanking shouldnt require 2 chars to do it. If you need a rit to buff the way and the war to tank its pointless. having a warrior that can sustain itself is much better, and sadly it has not died. Aggro control happens to be the easiest way to win in this game and tanks are the best at aggro control in every situation.

Kupp, this is the only MMORPG i play, and i tank so yeah that argument doesnt work. Also it wont make the party vulnerable exactly the opposite. When tanked correctly which sadly there are a lot of bad tanks out there, you can easily keep all aggro off of your allies and let them destroy the enemies with no harm to them, also if done correctly healer will have one less person to worry about due to the fact that the tank can generally stay alive alone unless mobbed by over maybe 12 enemies. btw tanks are so that pugs who are not designed to specifically work together to be able to stay alive and do damage. It means people can use the build they like and still be successful, not being brain dead.

Tanking is a legitimate tactic and works very well. In many HM areas it is useful to keep your casters and biggest damage dealers alive. Are those areas beatable with a tank? yes. are they easier with a tank? also yes

Or, you could not waste your entire skill bar and have a monk put a few prots on you, thereby achieving the same thing.

That's why tanking sucks. You have to waste an entire character to do what can be done with only a couple of skills.

LifeInfusion · Dec 29, 2010, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Tanking doesn't work when you need to protect multiple NPCs and mobs approach from multiple sides. Unless you are willing to give up about 1/3 to 1/2 of your team to run 0 weapon mastery, there is no hope there.

For example, Eternal Grove HM or Gyala's Hatchery HM.

mage767 · Dec 29, 2010, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Here's my take on how to play pve warriors:

1. If you are new, I don't care what bar you play, but please try different things to get a grasp of different skills.

2. Once you grasp the skills, try out Dragon Slash / Warrior Endurance (including scthe warriors) / 100 Blades / Earth Shakers/ based on the "generic" bars available at wiki.

3. Once you have tried the different builds, customize your favorite bar to your level of aggressive/defensive nature. Personally, I like to play a very aggressive warrior with 100b + tons of buffs to make my war the primary damage dealer in the team thanks to massive AOE damage caused. I also used 1-2 defensive skills to keep myself + team alive.

4. Customize your heroes to best synergize with your warrior. Add curse necro with Mark of Pain / Barbs / etc. If you know other professions well, this becomes quite simple. Otherwise, run "generic" heroway bars such as discord/sabway/spiritway whichever floats your float. Obviously, this will not give you optimal results but will serve better than the average team.

TaeZ246 · Dec 29, 2010, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Reaper with no name, theres a thing called enchantment removal. Those exist in HM. Prots generally = enchantments. If you can learn to live without enchantments you are much better off in the end.

Lifeinfusion, Im not sure if your saying the tank would run 0 weapon skill but your wrong with that. A tank can run a 13 strength 12 axe/hammer/sword (whatever you prefer) mastery. They are able to do significant damage with something like splinter weapon, a weapon spell. Currently there are no weapon spell removals to my knowledge other than adding another weapon spell. and there is no reason to tank there. You dont just tank every single place. If you read my first post i said when im not tanking i run earthshaker or D Slash usually. I dont tank when unnecessary. Personally i have not found a build more fun to run than tanking due to the fact it requires some form of concentration rather than the repetitive spam of things like d slash or earthshaker.

Also just a preference i dont bring SY on a bar. Its not the warriors job to add armor to his allies, he just keeps them from being attacked. Its the healers job to keep them alive if they do get attacked. Just my opinion.

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 30, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaeZ246

Reaper with no name, theres a thing called enchantment removal. Those exist in HM. Prots generally = enchantments. If you can learn to live without enchantments you are much better off in the end.

There are hex removals too, and stance removals. There are also skills that instantly kill spirits. Does this mean we should never use hexes, stances, or spirits, because we'll be better off without them? No, that's rubbish. Pre-protting = good technique. In PvE, you know what you're about to do, and you know what you're up against. If there are enchant removals, cover Prot Spirit with something else.

Quote:

Lifeinfusion, Im not sure if your saying the tank would run 0 weapon skill but your wrong with that. A tank can run a 13 strength 12 axe/hammer/sword (whatever you prefer) mastery. They are able to do significant damage with something like splinter weapon, a weapon spell. Currently there are no weapon spell removals to my knowledge other than adding another weapon spell. and there is no reason to tank there. You dont just tank every single place. If you read my first post i said when im not tanking i run earthshaker or D Slash usually. I dont tank when unnecessary. Personally i have not found a build more fun to run than tanking due to the fact it requires some form of concentration rather than the repetitive spam of things like d slash or earthshaker.

Your problem is that you're not clearly distinguishing tanking from aggro techniques. Holding aggro/balling/etc is good. No one is arguing that it isn't. The problem is that you don't need to waste attributes and run stuff like Defy Pain to do it. Pulling properly and a skill like Prot Spirit will allow you to hold aggro while running any pure damage build of your choice.

PS: There are no weapon spell removals.

PPS: If you don't like spamming attack skills, you probably shouldn't be playing a Warrior (at least not in PvE).

Quote:

Also just a preference i dont bring SY on a bar. Its not the warriors job to add armor to his allies, he just keeps them from being attacked. Its the healers job to keep them alive if they do get attacked. Just my opinion.

Agreed, but +100 armor to all allies is absurdly powerful. If you can use it, you might as well, because it means you can ditch a lot of defense and replace it with offense.

LifeInfusion · Dec 30, 2010, 12:11 AM // 00:11

As a monk: if a warrior doesn't bring SY! and brings Defy Pain instead of more damage, he doesn't know what he's doing and should run Eviscerate/100B/etc. instead of being terrible.

Mobs target the one with lowest armor and/or health. If you bring Defy pain without Save Yourselves! you end being counterproductive.

For the record, I play midline, backline and frontline warrior.

TaeZ246 · Dec 30, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Marty im not saying we shouldnt use them. i use them but if you can use as few as possible your better off. Yes there is removal for everything (other than weapon spells) im not saying we shouldnt use them just that if we can make due without them it works better. But the fact that i can hold aggro better, still do plenty of damage and survive on my own taking pressure off the healers is what makes tanking great. And im not saying just spamming attack skills im saying the mindless just hit hit hit of those builds, yes i use them but i think that tanking is more fun because you have to focus and time things more.

about SY yes it is powerful and it could be useful but its not something i think is worthwhile on a warrior i think the spot could be better used.

Lifeinfusion, the fact you think bringing defy pain is terrible makes me laugh. Warriors are made as characters who can take damage and deal damage not support. They should be used in this manner and are build to be used in that manner. A tank deals damage and holds aggro if done correctly. simple as that. It can handle both jobs by blowing stuff up without needing 100b using splinter weapon and MoP. Sadly warriors are not made to be support, if you truly require SY you must not be controlling aggro correctly. The simple point is i can aggro a group and survive on my own without prot spirit so the casters and allies can stand well out of the way and not take the chance of being aggroed, then once i am holding aggro they can attack and stay safe. and whether you like it or not when a group is aggroed correctly i have never lost aggro to one of my allies.

And good for you for playing all of them, its good that you do have an understanding of the skills and how to use them but that does not mean you are the ultimate authority on all playstyles. neither am i, i couldnt tell you a thing about being an ele and not much about being a mesmer but i can tell you tanking is a worthwhile tactic.

thetwistedboy · Dec 30, 2010, 02:30 AM // 02:30

hundred blades works amazingly with a good team behind you. just make your heroes and henchies defensive ones or nukers. make sure you have splinter weapon and strength of honor on your heroes. orders are ok but not recommended imo due to you most probably being the only melee/physical in the party

you can go with what other people have said and use a tankier build with h/h to kill, but thats not my style. ive tried, multiple times(even got really good at it), but its not really my thing.

my advice is to not stick yourself into the confines of what other people have made warriors out to be. be different in some way

reaper with no name · Dec 30, 2010, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaeZ246

Marty im not saying we shouldnt use them. i use them but if you can use as few as possible your better off. Yes there is removal for everything (other than weapon spells) im not saying we shouldnt use them just that if we can make due without them it works better. But the fact that i can hold aggro better, still do plenty of damage and survive on my own taking pressure off the healers is what makes tanking great. And im not saying just spamming attack skills im saying the mindless just hit hit hit of those builds, yes i use them but i think that tanking is more fun because you have to focus and time things more.

about SY yes it is powerful and it could be useful but its not something i think is worthwhile on a warrior i think the spot could be better used.

Lifeinfusion, the fact you think bringing defy pain is terrible makes me laugh. Warriors are made as characters who can take damage and deal damage not support. They should be used in this manner and are build to be used in that manner. A tank deals damage and holds aggro if done correctly. simple as that. It can handle both jobs by blowing stuff up without needing 100b using splinter weapon and MoP. Sadly warriors are not made to be support, if you truly require SY you must not be controlling aggro correctly. The simple point is i can aggro a group and survive on my own without prot spirit so the casters and allies can stand well out of the way and not take the chance of being aggroed, then once i am holding aggro they can attack and stay safe. and whether you like it or not when a group is aggroed correctly i have never lost aggro to one of my allies.

And good for you for playing all of them, its good that you do have an understanding of the skills and how to use them but that does not mean you are the ultimate authority on all playstyles. neither am i, i couldnt tell you a thing about being an ele and not much about being a mesmer but i can tell you tanking is a worthwhile tactic.

So let me get this straight.

You think Defy Pain is good, despite the fact that it actually makes it more difficult to tank, instead of less.

You think warriors are not meant to provide support, despite the fact that so many of their good skills do exactly that.

You think Save Yourselves is not worthwhile, even though it makes you a more attractive target to enemies.

You think spending multiple skill slots to make yourself tougher is better than just having your monk put a few prots on you, despite the fact that keeping people alive is his job.

All of this means you are a very bad warrior. You have no idea how the class operates, and your arguments range from confusing to downright self-contradicting. By trying to be both a tank and a damage dealer, you can only be mediocre at both.

Heck, as a warrior, you can only be a mediocre tank, period. If you really want to be a tank, make a SF assassin. But as anyone here will tell you, for 95% of the game, tanking is a waste of a party slot. That kind of massive defense is simply not necessary, which means you become nothing but a waste of a party slot that could have been taken up by something less worthless.

Like a dervish.

The Baphomet · Dec 30, 2010, 03:12 PM // 15:12

With a slightly modified wiki ES build I can theoretically qknock a balled mob for the duration of FGJ. This is pretty much all I play in pve. It prevents half of monsters' skills from getting off, and it keeps them in AoE damage. Also hammers are big dps.

As far as WE scythe vs 100b goes, WE all the way. They nerfed it in pvp for a reason. I find my 100b to commonly hit under 10 damage in hard mode. Hardly worth taking.

Xenomortis · Dec 30, 2010, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Baphomet

As far as WE scythe vs 100b goes, WE all the way. They nerfed it in pvp for a reason. I find my 100b to commonly hit under 10 damage in hard mode. Hardly worth taking.

Mark of Pain
Read carefully the details of this skill.

I agree however that 100B isn't really worth it without the aforementioned skill in your team.

I Hate Chips · Dec 30, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

I dont understand how soms people think 100b is bad? Either u cant aggro-control properly, or u dont got the Hero builds to go allong with it. A 100b on its own is indeed not that usefull. Combine it well with ur heroes and u get (imo) the most damage. I buff myself with a 16 smiting SoH (and judge intervention sometimes), a 16 channeling splinterweapon and micro MoP well. Works great for me did all H/H areas with it, even forgwight HM. Just needs some practice aggro-control.

TaeZ246 · Dec 30, 2010, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Reaper with no name im done arguing with you. Its gotten to the point of just calling people idiots. seriously i know what im doing as a warrior and if you are telling me the majority of a warriors skills is support (it pretty much requires the majority for something to be support) then you obviously dont know the skills.

If you think defy pain makes tanking harder you must not be doing it right because the more health you have the more ability you have to stay alive....a big part of tanking. SY i said is not something i put on because its not his job and it is not necessary to have it to aggro. If its not necessary the slot can be better used. The fact that the prots can be removed and it means the monk will continue to need to maintain those for me to function correctly means that i am an energy drain on the monk, making it pointless and hurting the team.

And i guess i have to spell it out for you how i can do damage and tank:

Once i have enough armor and health i have 3-4 slots open. One i use for added defense. The others i use for cyclone axe and whirlwind attack for the damage and adrenaline gain. the last goes to lions comfort again for adrenaline and it helps with healing. If you add splinter weapon to cyclone axe and whirlwind attack i can basically double as a 100b warrior, maybe not quite as powerful but i can do plenty of damage as well as take a workload off the monk.

If you can not see the idea behind that, i will explain it now. a warrior has high armor. That allows the warrior to survive. Now if you give a warrior highest armor it means he takes less damage. now if he takes less damage he can survive longer. Also if he can heal himself at the same time it means he pretty much has no problem surviving. (no i am not saying a tank can solo everything i dont want to hear a comment along those lines, or can he completely survive alone in all situations but he can do a hell of a lot better than any other build). So if he can survive on his own for a short while that means he can attract attention to himself. Once he does that the others can attack those enemies without being in danger. That means the monk has easier workload due to less damage taken by the majority of the group, and even a light workload because the warrior doesnt take all that much damage.

Now the best part of it is the tank.....can do damage. AMAZING ISNT IT?!?!?!? the tank along with MoP and splinter weapon can blow up mobs (which tanks are made to attract btw). So if he can double as a 100b, keep damage off of the casters, make the monks job easier, and eliminate most of the damage taken through high armor, well hell, sounds pretty good to me.

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 31, 2010, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaeZ246

Reaper with no name im done arguing with you. Its gotten to the point of just calling people idiots. seriously i know what im doing as a warrior and if you are telling me the majority of a warriors skills is support (it pretty much requires the majority for something to be support) then you obviously dont know the skills.

No, you clearly don't know what you're doing. You have limited understanding of game mechanics and how to deal tons of damage without wasting 3/4 of your bar on useless tanking crap.

Quote:

If you think defy pain makes tanking harder you must not be doing it right because the more health you have the more ability you have to stay alive....a big part of tanking.

Obviously more health makes it harder for you to die. That's not the point. What you don't understand is that the more health and armor you have, the lower priority to foes will give you. This makes it harder to tank as the foes are more inclined to run straight past you and attack your squishies.

Quote:

SY i said is not something i put on because its not his job and it is not necessary to have it to aggro.

No, but as I said earlier, it's massively powerful and you're a fool to completely disregard it. Also, it helps you to aggro. See my previous statement about health and armor levels. Having ~80AL less than everyone else makes you a much more attractive target.

Quote:

The fact that the prots can be removed and it means the monk will continue to need to maintain those for me to function correctly means that i am an energy drain on the monk, making it pointless and hurting the team.

The monk using energy =/= you wasting the Monks energy. The job of the Monk IS to keep the damage dealers alive. Having the monk heal/prot you while you deal craploads of damage is how things are supposed to work. Anyone who argues prots are bad is bad.

Here's where you contradict yourself: if you're supposed to be holding aggro, why would you have a monk (or healer of any kind) in your team? According to you, you getting heals is a waste of a monk, but them healing anyone else means you're a bad tank. Thus, you're arguing that monks and all healing abilities in the game are a waste.

Quote:

And i guess i have to spell it out for you how i can do damage and tank:

Once i have enough armor and health i have 3-4 slots open. One i use for added defense. The others i use for cyclone axe and whirlwind attack for the damage and adrenaline gain. the last goes to lions comfort again for adrenaline and it helps with healing. If you add splinter weapon to cyclone axe and whirlwind attack i can basically double as a 100b warrior, maybe not quite as powerful but i can do plenty of damage as well as take a workload off the monk.

So you've got 3 slots that contribute to damage. I'm now going to repeat what we've been telling through this thread: we can ball the foes just as well as you, deal loads more damage than you, and not waste any attribute points or skills slots doing it. Holding aggro does not require all that rubbish. A prot or two and a bit of smart play does the trick.

PS: WA + CA is not 'quite as powerful' as 100B. It does something similar, but 100B is much much more powerful.

Quote:

If you can not see the idea behind that, i will explain it now. a warrior has high armor. That allows the warrior to survive. Now if you give a warrior highest armor it means he takes less damage. now if he takes less damage he can survive longer. Also if he can heal himself at the same time it means he pretty much has no problem surviving. (no i am not saying a tank can solo everything i dont want to hear a comment along those lines, or can he completely survive alone in all situations but he can do a hell of a lot better than any other build). So if he can survive on his own for a short while that means he can attract attention to himself. Once he does that the others can attack those enemies without being in danger. That means the monk has easier workload due to less damage taken by the majority of the group, and even a light workload because the warrior doesnt take all that much damage.

Comparison: full damage bars + a prot from the monk means you kill things much more quickly, and dead things don't deal damage, so you survive really well. The difference between my way and your way is that we both survive really well, but I'll be clearing foes faster and not be completely useless if aggro breaks for whatever reason.

Quote:

Now the best part of it is the tank.....can do damage. AMAZING ISNT IT?!?!?!? the tank along with MoP and splinter weapon can blow up mobs (which tanks are made to attract btw). So if he can double as a 100b, keep damage off of the casters, make the monks job easier, and eliminate most of the damage taken through high armor, well hell, sounds pretty good to me.

Again:

1) Running full damage bars and holding aggro are not mutually exclusive. I can do all those things you mention just as well as you without throwing most of my skill bar away to do it.
2) If you think your bar does as much damage as a 100B bar, you clearly have no remote idea what you're talking about.
3) MoP and Splinter Weapon are not exclusive to tanks. I use them too, and get as much (quite possibly more) out of them as you do.

Horus Moonlight · Dec 31, 2010, 12:34 AM // 00:34

What are you not getting? Mobs target those with the lowest armour. Defy Pain is essentially making the rest of your party a more likely target. Even if you were to use defy pain after proper aggroing, SY! + PS (or some other form of prot) would be just as effective, benefits your party more, and leaves your elite slot open for something more useful than Defy Pain (i.e. everything).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaeZ246

The fact that the prots can be removed and it means the monk will continue to need to maintain those for me to function correctly means that i am an energy drain on the monk, making it pointless and hurting the team.

Stop theorycrafting. There are few places in which enchant removal is so rampant that a competent monk will drain his energy upkeeping PS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaeZ246

And i guess i have to spell it out for you how i can do damage and tank:

Once i have enough armor and health i have 3-4 slots open. One i use for added defense. The others i use for cyclone axe and whirlwind attack for the damage and adrenaline gain. the last goes to lions comfort again for adrenaline and it helps with healing. If you add splinter weapon to cyclone axe and whirlwind attack i can basically double as a 100b warrior, maybe not quite as powerful but i can do plenty of damage as well as take a workload off the monk.

Please do not even try to compare whirlwind + splinter to 100B + whirlwind + splinter; the damage is not comparable.

Really? You want to "take a workload" off the monk yet you feel SY! isn't necessary? So +100 armour that reduces the amount of protting and red-barring the monk(s) need to do for the rest of the party is somehow less useful to them than some shitty "tank" skill?

You have essentially wasted half your bar to do something that can easily be done with some minor coordination and competence between you and the rest of your party.

I Hate Chips · Dec 31, 2010, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Guys...

Stop arguing its kinda useless against people who are not open-minded, this tread will go on and on like this. Just please taeZ246 look to Marty's quotes, im sure he actually knows what he's doing. Everyone is wrong sometimes, u just got to admit it and then u can improve ur warriorskills. Damn I feel like a father watching over a kid ....

GreetZ psychiatrist Stephen

PS: ur monk-energy-drainig-arguement is a bad arguement since we have ER prots nowadays, spam PS like there is no tomorrow

thedeadlyassassin · Jan 04, 2011, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I run a build that someone told me on here long ago...

Dragon Slash
Brawling Headbutt (Dwarf title track)
Low blow (Dwarf title track)
Save Yourselves (Luxon/Kurzick Title track)
For Great Justice!
Flail
Enraging Charge
Comfort Animal/Charm Animal (I just use this for the Menagerie)

Basically run in using enraging charge, put up For Great Justice and Flail and start spamming Dragon Slash. With Flail + FGJ you can continually spam Dragon Slash effectively, dealing lots of damage. Not to mention Headbutt and Low blow can do 200 dmg total with rank 8 if used correctly, just make sure you auto attack between the two or you won't have the adrenaline to use low blow.

I do this with the triple necro machine, Herta, Cynn, Menhlo, and Jina or whatever her name is and easily Vanquished Cantha. Haven't tried the other continents because I only VQ to get the PKM title to get a rainbow.

I was also able to do every dungeon.

Just keep Save Yourselves up and your casters can basically tank and Herta will use Earth spells to make herself more reasonable while Cynn does a good job spreading AoE while your monks + rit necro do all the healing. It's easy as pie and you should only die if you over aggro or reach an area where there is no flesh corpses.

Voodoo Rage · Jan 04, 2011, 06:16 PM // 18:16

WE Scythe and HB are both great (personally I like to go HB because I'm a /A shadowstep junkie when it comes to melee). The key is to roll a combination of heroes or a team that is there to make YOU the centerpiece to blow stuff up. It astounds me to see warriors running discord teams. What's the fun in that? Be sure that whatever combination of builds you have you want Strength of Honor, solid condition removal, solid protective spells, Mark of Pain, and Splinter Weapon. Heck to be honest, I'm running Frenzy most of the time when I H/H since my midline is so effective at protecting me (flame away...).